Wednesday, June 20, 2007

CSA: No duty of care

No responsibility here...With reference to this post, it came as no surprise to me that Denise Rowley lost her case against the CSA in the Court of Appeal. She intends to appeal to the House of Lords, but I don't hold out much hope. It is appalling that parents and children can have no recompense for the severe hardship they have suffered as a result of the failure of a government body to do its job. For an example of this hardship and an eloquent criticism of the system I recommend reading Lisa's comment to my previous post.

[Edit: Lisa has since commented upon a number of other posts in the Child Support section of this blog, for example here and here. Her comments speak far more eloquently than any platitudinous government minister of the reality of the utter failure of the child support system.]


  1. Thank you....Mary Kehoe tried to logged this with the Law Lords and failed ( she eventually packed up and shipped out to Spain, probably fraught with driving depression, another absent parent off the hook and another case filed at CSA HQ as she is now out of the country, as jo completed.
    I have logged a petition with 10 Downing Street ( but only 99 have signed!
    The funny thing is only in the news this morning - RETIREMENT SAVINGS INADEQUATE ( so i will be damned again when i reach retirement age...I don't have surplus money for my retirement.
    I did have a spell on Income Support (When Ex husband left) and i followed the Governments guide lines (once both children were in full time education) of getting loan parents back into the work environment, have they helped my children, absolutely not! I am one less being picked up by the state...another job well done!
    The whole child poverty issue sickens me to the pit of my stomach, i am also being bullied by my sons schools due to the fact yet again my 12 yr old has worn out his 5th pair of shoes in 9 months and 6th pair for my eldest, my budget just will not stretch, yet the school encourage there Father to attend 'Parents' Evening, ironical really isn't it? Do they hound him errrr NO!

    Single parents are blamed for a whole lot of economic issues
    1. Under achievers at school - well he came from a single parent household
    2. In trouble with the law - well he came from a single parent household
    3. Teenage pregnancies - well he came from a single parent household
    4. ASBO's - well he came from a single parent household
    5. Drug addict - well he came from a single parent household
    6. No chance of university - well he came from a single parent household

    A label i can't bear, and with this against them in society what a struggle they have before entering into the big wide world...i just have to be the best parent i can!!!

  2. Dear Lisa

    I stumbled across John's excellent blog yesterday. I emailed him to introduce myself and to tell him his blog is brilliant. A human lawyer with a great sense of humour and I certainly share his views.

    A little bit about myself. I've had the 'pleasure' of dealing with the CSA for 12 years now.I'm passed the stages of ranting,anger and the tears.I occasionally have the odd relapse but they are few and far between and nothing a bottle of red...currently cheap sparkling white...can't cure.

    Gone through all the crap of departures, appeals etc. In fact I 'won' one appeal on lifestyle inconsistant. Now that made the NRP move fast....the only time he has with the CSA. He approached the Commissioner siting his Human Rights!!!I didn't bother with all that because I knew it would go back to Appeal, but at least this raised the so called 'child support'from the 'fiver'to a modest amount.

    Been to the Parliamentary Ombudsman twice,met Demon Doug in the flesh once with a Senior Case Manager ( SCM ) in my MP's office,who did most of the talking.At least this meeting enabled me to deal with the Chief Executive Office direct, so I didn't have to go through the painful procedure entitled 'phoning up the CSA'.

    My case did get a little better and I managed to get some advance payments which has resulted in the arrears only being around 10K now, if the CSA calculations are correct. Mind you,many people's arrears are so big I suppose it doesn't matter if they are a couple of grand or so out, without any hope of receiving them in the immediate future.

    Met the SCM again...the latest CEO doesn't do visits to 'clients'.. and we were soooo close for going for an order of sale. But then Hilary Reynolds ( another one now gone ) decided the NRP could lose his home. WOT A SHAME! Besides, he was now paying again, so give him a pat on the back and say good boy and, Hey Presto!, no more enforcement action because he was complying again. Ms Reynolds knew he hadn't complied in the past,but it was hard cheese for me.It doesn't matter,therefore, PWCs and kids might just possibly lose their homes.

    You haven't mentioned pay for a few months then stop for a few months ruse. That one keeps the CSA going round in circles.

    I have to make do with arrears payments of £12 per week off a debt of 10K plus. I know there are lots of PWCs out there not receiving anything, but, believe me, I have fought tooth and nail for what I get now.

    Latest botch up is that bloody place in Bolton by Vertex. The govt want to keep that one quiet.In my case,things went haywire in November 06. I gave up talking to Bolton as Vertex just don't know what they are doing and they are lying gits.Even the CSA can't get through to them.

    Eventually, and because of a certain solicitor, we managed to get to the bottom of the missing payments.

    You have to laugh...otherwise you will go insane.

    Well that's my story with a lot cut out.

    Then there's my other case.....but, funnily enough,I'm getting regular payments via DEO. But I had to fight for that too.

    I blame the CSA for the break up of my second marriage....

    Best to stay on your own,I say. Mind you, I do have a special person I think the world of...Charon's post tickled me.

    MP sent me the Child Maintenance and other Payments Bill today for my comments.

    Is this what receiving child support is all about? All this monstrous red tape?

    Happy reading in bed for me for the next few nights.

    Keep fighting, Lisa, for the sake of our kids.

  3. Hi Sensemaya

    I really should get my own blog on here and i too emailed John direct yesterday, i whole heartedly agree with what he has written, he has let me vent my VOICE through his blog and i thank him for that.

    Wine has been many a cure for me too...chink chink!

    It really has been a whole shitty mess and ICE did a wonderful job with there 28 page document that the parliamentary ombudsman dismissed...lack of evidence would you believe with the excuse that my ex husband is serial non payer...REALLY tell me something i don't know. It is actually against the law to not financailly support your children!!

    I have posted through out John's blog with all the issues i have had and with last weeks debacle of taking his driving licence and him throwing another £50p/m at the debt to keep them off his back angered me immensely.

    I am so jealous they let you into court...the first time i turned up they refused me entry with a belidgerant court representing officer talking down to hate!!!

    I to have months of just laughing at the CSA with the crap they tell me, but this week with regards to Denise Rowleys Appeal i did was the judgement i just found that so upsetting. We as parents are ignored and battered by the system.

    Negative - Friends, family and the other devil on my shoulder all say 'Give up, get on with your life, your never going to receive a penny, it's absorbing to much of your life...' I can't just walk away, the other devil on my shoulder makes me lol lol.

    I so wanted to do a March through London, through Whitehall into Parliament Square, but it would have been a march of about 4 people...Fathers4Justice had gimmicks, but the ones hanging off buildings were not paying for there kids, and after a shitty email from them that confirmed what a bunch of low lifes they were!!

    Sadly as far as access is concerned when you state to a judge that the Father refuses to pay the two do not go hand in hand...Why not? Wants parental responsibility, but doesn't want to pay...i stopped access and i am in theory breaking a court order, but there Father isn't beating a path to the door and nor has he, yet he causes merry hell at there school, and like with every year they need new shoes this month (Bearing in mind they break up for six weeks very soon) and instead of giving him a call they bully the hell out of me and my children.

    My MP James Clappison refuses to see me, mainly because his fruitless answers and responses from the CSA are not news and secondly his secretary says and i quote 'My mother never received maintenance from my father, i suggest you get on with your life' more fool her mother Emma quite frankly!!

    The only thing my ex pays is now the £100p/m off of the registered debt on his home (£15500) this amounts to £1200p/y yet the maintenance grows at £5219.24p/a (Yes a figure etched on my brain). He paid in the very beginning and then stopped for 23 months which i new nothing about until i returned to work hoping that this money was now to come to me instead of the secretary of state, instead a debt of £6k accrued and they did nothing in this time and allowed the debt to build up, apparently this was my job to ensure that he was paying...not sure why it was my job considering i never received a penny of it, it went straight into the government pocket as i was on full state benefit. Then we had an attachment of earnings and then the CSA in there wisdom decided to reassess, instead of just leaving it alone and then it was uped, he decided one Monday morning in cohouts with his company that he was going self employed and then the sorry mess grew into the debt we have now!

    I have to ask what or who are Bolton as Vertex?

    if you want to talk directly via email i am on Johns space!!!

    Thank you John!!!

  4. No problem. Didn't receive your email yesterday though.

  5. I have sent it again was sent at 11pm last night, or there abouts via your email section on your blog


  6. I have a ex self employed partner who in 2000 decideded being a father wasnt his cup of tea, and disappeared, called in the CSA from 2000- 2004 not a word or penny from the ex, then he sold his house and we got some off the arrears through a charging order, then suddenly he contacts them, Im no longer working as a builder and Im not claiming any benefits so could you kindly reasses me , certaintly the CSA said, here have a nil assessment, (note the sacarsam)hold says I , this is a self employed builder who for 15 years fiddled his tax returns and is known for working cash in hand, sorry says the csa, nil assessment stands , enter tribunal, no repsonse for information from NRP and i win, NRP asks for it to be set aside and it is, 1 yr later tribunal heard how he brought a £340,000.00 house for he and his partner and how he gave up work to work for himself on his "6 bedroom dream house" for 2 people why ? "because I can" ! he wins second appeal because on grounds of deprevation of income a self employed NRP cannot deprived themselfs of an income, so he lives in a 6 bedroom house, claims not to have done any cash jobs in 4 years,even though tribunal agreed his tax returns were false and he had worked cash in hand, has a mercedes van, an alfa romeo car, and a boat in the drive.. and a nil assessment !!... yep I hold the CSA and the tribunal service in high regard !!

  7. I had money given to another woman too, but when I asked if they had taken it back, I got no reply!

  8. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  9. Rio - please email me:

  10. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  11. Seems to be a lot of removed posts.Why is that? Truth or fear of the truth? Governemnt contracts outsourced to half-assed companies like Vertex? Karen Bedford email me on

  12. I emailed John Bloch previously, but no reply.
    Does John work for Vertex?

  13. OK, I know that you have had a bad experience with the CSA but please, let's keep things civil. I am not in the pay of Vertex or, indeed, anyone else. I did, in fact, reply to your email and as I explained there, comments have been removed because they are possibly defamatory - if anyone wants to write such things, then they can do so on their own blogs - just don't involve me. As I also explained, I am quite prepared to let your comments stand if they are re-written in such a way that there is no possibility of defamation.

  14. Hi i have just come across this blog as i'm having untold problems with Vertex who are contracted to work for the CSA...Unfortunately my case has gone clerical through no fault of my own and I have ended up having to deal with BOLTON!!! Great! Since May 2009 I have constantly been calling them as I have 2 cases one for my 9yr old son and one for my 2yr old little girl. I feel like I am doing there job for them every month I have to phone and find out if my Sons Father has paid any funds in so that I can get it released, problem is they are taking 3 wks to get the money in to my account....Apparently I was told some rather useless information today that it takes a whole 33 clicks on a mouse to release my Sons money....I can not see Vertex employees being happy if they were told there was a blip on the wages system and it will take an extra 3 wks for monies to be paid into there accounts....They say they are a non profitable organisation it does make me wonder??? And something I will be looking into myself....I thought the CSA was sposed to be getting better but in my mind things are getting worse...I already have an official complaint going through about Bolton due to bad customer service, They dont seem to know how to pick up a phone and return a call and just seem to fob you off as they want to get you off the phone as quickly as possible and that is just a few things....My next complaint letter will be about there time just lucky that i do actually have food in my fridge tonight...Apparently they deal with people like me on a daily basis doesn't really give me alot of faith in the people I talk to on the phone or rather robots!!!

    1. if parents of the said children were adult enough to talk to each other WOULD THERE BE A REASON FOR CSA ???

  15. Vertex have now been bought out by a company called SERCO in June 2012, who are carrying on supplying the CSA outsourcing


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